Training A Dog

Question: How big a part does fear play when training a dog?

(Posted by: ███████ Fiónnabhair ███████ on 2010-07-31 13:58:23)

Or do you consider fear a ''dirty word''? @Swine Flu Maybe to you it is. Nope, still not getting it. Maybe add more? Ah swine flu the troll has deleted their answer... I asked a question a few months ago about the same thing and got some great responses... damned if i can find it now among all the others..

Posted by: ms manners on 2010-07-31, 21:20:45

My dogs should fear disobeying me, but not fear me. I have always seen training as establishing a balance between fear (respect) and trust. Most animals naturally lean too far in one direction or the other. A naturally fearful dog needs to develop more trust. A naturally rebellious dog needs a little more fear in his life. A dog needs to know that he can trust you to defend him and treat him fairly, but that there WILL be consequences for deliberate disobedience.

Posted by: bluebonnetgranny on 2010-07-31, 14:04:20

Whose fear? Yours or the dogs? In what kind of training? Obedience, advanced obedience, hunters, herders, Personal Protection? "Fear " is not a dirty word. Not enough information to really answer your question.

Posted by: TK on 2010-07-31, 14:06:38

I don't think fear needs to enter into normal dog training at all.

Posted by: Launi ~Thundering ~ Wild Angels~ on 2010-07-31, 14:19:00

Jen, IMO it is all about the dog you are training. If you are working with a soft dog, fear is not something you want or need to establish. Same for working with a dog who has unstable genetics causing the animal to be shy, anxious and fearful, with no self esteem. You can break a dog like this using training which involves fear. The correct amount of fear is establishing a high level of respect. A dog with hard nerves, willfulness, assertive and powerful will hold up very well under training in which *fear* is needed to some degree in order to establish your role as the one in control. To quote a person who was on the website: ~A degree of fear, when used properly with the correct dog, is a good thing.~ ADD: Once again, well said Ms. Manners

Posted by: Yorkies are NOT lap dogs! on 2010-07-31, 14:20:25

Fear should have no part. You don;t have to make a dog fearful to show you are displeased with them. Its not bunny hugging to say fear has no place in training. I tell my kids off but the don't fear me. Fear comes from inconsistent and unfair training, sometimes it may not b obvious to the trainer that they ARE being unfair and inconsistent but it will be obvious to the dog. This is why I dislike things like shock collars. Its not that I don't think they have a place but they need to be used with such discretion and care that only the most skilled of trainers should be using them. The fact that anyone can buy one and use it to "train " his dog is amazing. Tools like this in the WRONG hands cause a dog to be fearful and a fearful dog has only two options, run or fight and if he is in a position he can't get away from then he will bite... and then who's the bad dog??? I mostly reward train, I have a pocket of treats that come out on walk and we do snippets of obedience training out on the walk. We work on recalls, sit, stays downs etc. The treats are handed out for swift and correct behaviour, sloppy when-I'm-ready recalls are ignored and tried again later and bad behaviour is reprimanded. My dogs will give me the look, the "Aw crap I messed up and mums mad " look, but they are not fearful, they don;t cower, or refuse to come, or pant in stress or at worst urinate in fear. I like plenty of carrot and a little stick when it comes to training.

Posted by: Dog Mama on 2010-07-31, 14:50:15

Fear in training? Fear is counter-productive. Fear is asking for 'revolution'. Fear is a bad training tool.

Posted by: Coley on 2010-07-31, 15:37:56

Quite possibly I do not understand the question but I would relate "fear " to some compulsion based training. Which in itself, is not bad to me. However, I would not recommend training a puppy (nor do I) based solely on the compulsion theory as I believe "fear " shuts a pup down and you do not attain the best out of that pup. After a lesson is learned, I certainly would add compulsion to proof that said behavior a bit further. However at that time I don't feel compulsion adds fear to that level of training like it would with a 14wk old pup, lets say. It depends on the dog. With my Cavaliers any "fear " based training would get you absolutely no where other than a dog that was shut down with a rounded back, tail between its legs, literally trying to smooze you and crawl up your @ss. With a harder dog they can stand harder corrections but "fear " is not what I believe they have. I think there is a fine line between fear and respect and how people perceive it tho. Many would say E collars, choke collars, or prongs, promote fear in a dog...I don't. There are times when a bit of "fear " may be helpful however, I feel in the long run it is detrimental for most typical pet dogs. For instance, my Cav Mindy has decided to jump up on our kitchen table when no one is around. I caught her, reprimanded her and put a drag line on her. Then put a tempting bone on the table and left the room. Yup, I caught her again, snuck in quietly and jerked her off the table with a NO, before she knew what hit her. All other options had been expended. She no longer sneaks on the table but walks past it crawling? IDK if it was the "right " way to go about it but certainly deterred the behavior. It is obvious that this was a fearful experience for her.

Posted by: BCDawgMa ~Love My Lyra~ on 2010-07-31, 16:48:53

I don't really understand your question. There should be NO fear involved in training a dog. The handler shouldn't feel fear training the dog & the dog shouldn't feel fear learning or working. There is a difference between respect & fear. Respect doesn't have to be fear-based.